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Egads, this thread has been done to death O.o (Wed Jan 8 09:33:43 2003 )
keeper [View profile ]
http://www.isotype-newtype.com
ladyvitani@yahoo.com

Poor Star Phoenix - ask a question, get a 200 
page legal document on every known aspect of 
fancels and a debatable bitch-fest. O.o Most of 
the replies here are pretty redundant and 
moreover, beside the point of the original query. 
But I'd like to throw in my two cents, for what 
it's worth, both as a fellow studio production 
cel collector, a fancel artist *AND* as someone 
who has had fancels made of their production cels 
and one entire website copy-cat-ed (three times 
plagarised no less O.o).

Please be advised, these are my own thoughts on 
the matter, nothing more. They are not facts nor 
laws. You wanna flame me for what my brain churns 
out, peachy keen.

Okay! Since Star Phoenix only wanted to hear 
*opinions* on how we would *feel* regarding 
seeing a fancel made of a studio cel we already 
purchased, my personal response would be: yes. It 
was not always so, but circumstances have since 
soured me towards the idea.

And I would be upset for several reasons. As a 
cel collector: I spent money to own a unique and 
one-of-kind piece of animation history. I took 
time to scan it, and place it proudly in an 
online personal gallery to show it off - a 
gallery that states clearly "do not remove the 
scans without permission". 

Yes, in the end, it IS about money. When you need 
it, sell it. If you want it, buy it. Money makes 
the world go round. It's not the only thing that 
makes the world go round, but it helps. -_- 

I think money is also the biggest reason because 
you don't see too many people getting this gun-ho 
for any other form of fanart - like watercolor or 
CG fanarts. They're sold on eBay, too, but it 
only seems that fancels get this many people in a 
twitter. 

But as Drac pointed out, it is also about common 
courtesy and treating each other with decency and 
respect. If you know someone owns the real studio 
cel, or even if you suspect someone might, you 
should ask first. Why risk pissing someone off? 
There's thousands of images you could copy (or 
hell, here's a thought - draw your own!) it won't 
kill you to hear a cel owner say "no". 

If you post here, or even occassionally visit, 
you know who collects what, which person won 
which auction, and who might have a certain cel 
in their gallery. If you have time to post a 
message in this forum, then you have time to even 
just ASK around first.

It's not about LEGAL copyright laws. There's no 
question we're all breaking the law there, no 
matter what country you live in. Shoot, if you 
use an artbook scan for a graphic layout for a 
personal website or blog, that's infringement of 
the studio/artists copyrights. If I used a quote 
from a book or poem for a character shrine, 
that's infringing on the author's copyright. If I 
directly copied dialogue, scenes, and characters 
to use in one of my fanfiction stories, that's 
plagarism. There's no shades of grey here; those 
are black-and-white facts.

But we're talking about personal opinions here, 
not legalities. And as with any hobby in which 
groups of induviduals come together, I think the 
golden rule is common courtesy, showing respect 
and having manners. If you can't say something 
nice, don't say anything at all. Or rather, if 
you can't paint something new, don't paint 
anything at all, so to speak. ^.~

As a fan artist: I'd also be upset because 
seriously, WHY make a direct FAKE copy of an 
already existing REAL cel and try to pass 
yourself off as an "artist". Puh-leeze. I agree 
with Yann here in that there is no originality 
nor creativity in TRACING. Painting a fancel 
based off a direct image is nothing more than a 
child's paint-by-number. I know. I paint them 
too. That may make me a walking contridiction, 
but that's what I think.

And just so I don't come off that horrid myself, 
here is a fan art sketch I plan on painting onto 
a cel. It is FAN art of Olba and Shagia Frost 
from "Gundam X" I drew a few months back at work. 
I did not trace it. 

"After War GX" is owned by Shinji Takamatsu, 
Sotsu Agency, Sunrise and TV Asahi. Character 
designs are copyrighted to their original 
artists. All rights reserved to them, not me.

What do I own? The piece of paper the sketch is 
drawn on, and the original idea of the concept 
art. I don't own Olba nor Shagia Frost - just the 
lines that formed them on that particular piece 
of paper. ^^;

This is all FAN works. Fan art, fan fiction, fan 
hobby - this is all meant to be fun! To show our 
love and appreciation of an already exisiting 
object or idea that belongs to someone else.

Now I'm done. I think. Ugh. Thanks for reading 
this, and hopefully I don't sound that retarded 
or redundant O.o 

~ keeper
who tried her best to keep a civil tongue in her 
head... O.o



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